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KARL_

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Member Since: 9/2008

A Pagan's Incantation

Monument Valley
(Free from http://www.pdphoto.org/)

Jasper National Park
(Free from http://www.pdphoto.org/)

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A Pagan's Incantation

Spirit of the land
arise in Justice
and shine.

Your time has yet to come.

Spirit of the Land
arise in Peace
and shine.

Your time will be one day.

Spirit of the Land
arise again in Beauty
and shine.

Your children will make amend.

Spirit of the Land, arise.
And shape Us
after Wisdom
After Justice
Fraternity
Peace
and Beauty.

That Time...
has yet to come
But will.

And the heavens
will sing your praise.
And your children
will sing your songs,
and spread your radiance
throughout this world.

But first...
Arise in Justice
And shine.

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{"commentId":6072187,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}
Karl_Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

May we live to see the day.

{"commentId":6072187,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 13 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:15 AM EDT
{"commentId":6078488,"authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}

I have a long-winded friend who was a very committed environmentalist in the 1980s, an Earth-First member who never missed an opportunity to warn those around him about the terrible things we are doing to the land.

One day my friend was visiting a professional colleague in Belgium, a plastics manufacturer who designed processes in many large factories. Sensing an opportunity to influence someone powerful, my friend proceeded to explain the ecological consequences of PCB pollution, the growing effect of plastics on the oceans, the accelerating rate of species extinctions, and so on.

The plastics manufacturer listened politely to these facts as they were explicated over a number of days. Finally his patience wore thin and he turned to my friend and simply said, "come with me".

The two proceeded to the manufacturer's car and drove out through the dense forest of the Ardennes. The manufacturer would not explain where they were going. He would not engage in any conversation at all and my friend began to worry that his enthusiasm for nature had given offence.

The two drove on in silence for almost an hour. Then the manufacturer stopped the car, repeated "come with me", got out, and strode directly into the woods.

My friend felt he had no choice but to follow. The two hiked in silence for several minutes. Eventually they came upon an astonishing sight, a great clearing in the middle of the forest filled with tulips of all colors in full bloom, growing wild. The sky between the old growth trees was clear, the air heavy and rich, the only sound the wind and birdsong.

"Yes." declared my friend, "This is exactly what I've been describing. This special place is filled with the spirit of the land. This is sacred. It is what we must work together to protect."

"Look down," said the manufacturer.

My friend looked down. At his feet there was a weathered plaque. In large letters and several languages, it read:

Do Not Lie Down Here!

In 1915 this site was bombed with mustard gas. The soil remains impregnated with this weapon. If you lie down here, you will die.

"But the tulips love it. You see," said the manufacturer, "the land evolves and adapts. Here, it took a few generations. Usually it takes a few millions of years. But that is a blink in the history of the land. We cannot do anything to harm nature. We can only harm ourselves."

My friend is no longer an environmentalist.

{"commentId":6078488,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:49 PM EDT
{"commentId":6078690,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}
My friend is no longer an environmentalist.

I went along with your story until you wrote this bottom line which I find contrived.

There is no profound reason in that story that justifies giving up that vocation. Turn Earth into a giant cesspool and it will keep on spinning around the sun - without us. This is very true.

To our knowledge, we are the most advanced sapient beings alive in this corner of our small galaxy. Life has only flourished here, as far as we know. We represent a flower at Nature's lapel, or a wart on its chin.

I arbitrarily designate Consciousness as a rare flower that I chose to help preserve... I understand that there is no true absolute. But in this bipolar world, this is my choice, and I will actively support it.

{"commentId":6078690,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 12 votes
#1.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:06 PM EDT
{"commentId":6081561,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

The story sounds very contrived because while there are Deep Ecology environmentalists who hold not-entirely-different views, even they concede the difference between actively doing damage to the Earth, and giving the Earth the wherewithal to continue on. Our society is now both doing damage, and standing in the way of Earth doing its wherewithal.

If you don't believe me, go ask a Dodo.

And as far as: "We can only harm ourselves." Well. Since when were we not also a part of nature, then? Our intelligence is not a given - it is not a specified goal of evolution that is somehow "better" or "the next step" - and indeed may ultimately prove maladaptive. There is nothing inherently "more evolved" about intelligence than there is about an elephant's trunk.

But you don't see elephants using the fact they have trunks as an excuse to exercise the wholesale genocide of countless species. Which is what we, with our "intelligence", have most decidedly done.

No dice.

{"commentId":6081561,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 8 votes
#1.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
{"commentId":6081704,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

Chasing,

I wish you would specify which story you find contrived. That would remove, at a glance, all ambiguity.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!

{"commentId":6081704,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 8 votes
#1.4 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:42 PM EDT
{"commentId":6081827,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
I wish you would specify which story you find contrived.

Peter's. I find that either the story is untrue, or, if true, the friend was never an environmentalist in the first place.

{"commentId":6081827,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 8 votes
#1.5 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:52 PM EDT
{"commentId":6082031,"authorDomain":"mike-kovanda"}

Your friend is no longer an environmentalist? He probably died from some of the fumes in his buddies plastics plant. I live near Lake Michigan,it never quite adapted to the PCB,s that Outboard Marine Corp. dumped into it. It is recommended that you eat no more than one fish a month from its waters. If your pregnant none. Bad story, sorry I wasted time reading it.

{"commentId":6082031,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"mike-kovanda"}
  • 6 votes
#1.6 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:11 PM EDT
{"commentId":6082160,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

Chasing & Spike,

Thank you for highlighting the incongruities in that truncated post where its beginning does not fit its end.

{"commentId":6082160,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 7 votes
#1.7 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:21 PM EDT
{"commentId":6084906,"authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}

I repeat the story as I heard it. I have no way of knowing if it is contrived. Knowing my friend as I do, I don't believe it is - but that's not to say it is not more poetic, in his mind, than it was in reality.

There is no profound reason in that story that justifies giving up that vocation. Turn Earth into a giant cesspool and it will keep on spinning around the sun - without us. This is very true.

We know, from the fossil record, that there have been several great extinctions in Earth's history. Times when the Earth could support very little life, of very restricted variety, for hundreds or thousands of years.

And yet we inherited a garden. Over millions of years spinning around the sun life turns cesspools into gardens. It doesn't matter to life that this takes millions of years. It only matters to us.

To our knowledge, we are the most advanced sapient beings alive in this corner of our small galaxy. Life has only flourished here, as far as we know. We represent a flower at Nature's lapel, or a wart on its chin.

We have no such knowledge.

Everything we observe in the universe appears imbued with energy and self-organizing chemical processes. Indeed it appears most likely to me, based on the limited evidence we possess, that life is itself a universal - that it is not some epiphenomenon of inert elements, but that it is the fundamental of physics itself . That living processes organize the universe on all possible scales and timeframes.

The conceit that only Earth is alive, and that only we are intelligent, is both modern and unscientific.

Our society is now both doing damage, and standing in the way of Earth doing its wherewithal.

Then our society is temporary. As is natural to most species, ours will have its end. The accident of our self-awareness will have proved futile. Humans will slide away on the tide of life, to be replaced with new forms. Life is eternal decay and renewal.

But you don't see elephants using the fact they have trunks as an excuse to exercise the wholesale genocide of countless species. Which is what we, with our "intelligence", have most decidedly done.

If we didn't do it, within the next hundred million years some big falling rock would have done it. Genocide and genesis happen over and over, whether we're involved or not.

Your friend is no longer an environmentalist? He probably died from some of the fumes in his buddies plastics plant.

He's still alive but has only one lung. That's not from PCBs, however - it's from smoking. If you also find this story unlikely, remind me to repeat my friend's story about how smoking is actually good for your health.

In any case I apologize for any offence given. I like Karl_'s article very much. I just think it needs to take more of the picture into account. It's not that we would not harm a fly. It's that we cannot harm a fly. And if we keep going the way we're going, the flies may evolve into bees and butterflies all over again. None of this is happening for the first time.

{"commentId":6084906,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:19 AM EDT
{"commentId":6084941,"authorDomain":"ghall1950"}

Karl! So weird! I had comments on this seed that are no longer there? I wonder how that happened?

I loved the poem and the pictures you chose. I said on the disappeared comment that I thought of the Native Americans when I read it, like phoenix said on hers further down. I really missed out today. This is beautiful! ♥

{"commentId":6084941,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"ghall1950"}
  • 7 votes
#1.9 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:23 AM EDT
{"commentId":6086244,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
We know, from the fossil record, that there have been several great extinctions in Earth's history.

Name one - from the fossil record - that was caused by a single species. Oh wait. You can't. And see, that's the problem. Even though evolution doesn't have intelligence as a goal, we nevertheless have it. And, like so much else, it needs to be used wisely. Can it be used to destroy countless ecosystems? Surely. But a gun can just as surely shoot my neighbor. That doesn't mean it should. And one would hope that the very same sort of intelligence that can invent the gun in the first place would also know that, you know what, probably it would be unwise to shoot the elderly, kind old lady next door, right in the forehead. So try again with that logic. That line has been trotted out for, what, twenty, thirty years now? Time for a new one.

If we vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow, the world will recover. This is true. It may not look the same as if we never existed but whatever, it'd exist, and repopulate. But, with intelligence comes the responsibility to do as little harm as possible. And if you don't believe that? Then you know what, common sense dictates we don't do ourselves in. Ourselves. And that's what we're doing, slowly, but surely. You talk about the bigger picture, but miss the forest for the trees. And, in that, you give yourself away.

{"commentId":6086244,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:15 AM EDT
{"commentId":6086840,"authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}

@Chasing,

Name one - from the fossil record - that was caused by a single species

I think the oxygen catastrophe caused by the evolution of cyanobacteria fits the bill. Obviously there were diverse species of cyanobacteria, but likely they all evolved from a single progenitor. Cyanobacteria caused the chemistry of Earth's atmosphere to suddenly flip from 0.2% Oxygen to 20% oxygen, destroying almost all life-forms on the planet at that time. And incidentally coloring the sky blue - though no one had evolved eyes to see it.

with intelligence comes the responsibility to do as little harm as possible. And if you don't believe that? Then you know what, common sense dictates we don't do ourselves in.

I'm a parent. I'm not at all interested in anything which promotes the destruction of our race. I find humans, on a personal basis, fascinating and wonderful. I prefer to think of human demise as something far distant, and none of my child's concern.

Nevertheless, I recognize that that is a fantasy. As it is not in our power to do anything to harm the spirit of the land, if we oppose it, as we are doing, it must overwhelm and destroy us. We have created an environment in which we are about to die back.

No belief, not even in deep environmentalism, changes this fact. As a race we have bred, exhausted, and polluted ourselves into a corner. We have no resource, technology or strategy that can save us from a catastrophe that beggars the imagination. We cannot conserve our way out of this. We cannot fight our way out of it. And we cannot fly away to the stars.

So much for common sense. The alternatives whereby humans could possibly survive lie in uncommon sense. We might invent new technologies to heal or replace dying global ecosystems, effect global human sterilization to halt our runaway population growth, capture and recycle all our carbon through artificial photosynthesis, engineer our weather through ocean fertilization and simulated volcanic clouds, and so on ... we are in need of a Tesla, a Newton, a Leibniz, a Feynmann, a Fuller, Von Neumann and Da Vinci all at once. Wild new technologies - fusion reactors, AI and molecular nanotechnology, a living transhumanity - maybe that could save us.

Most likely we won't get that. If we don't invent our way out of this, the Olduvai scenario will set our race back 100,000 years, at least. And even that is optimism.

So my friend is not an environmentalist now. He's a technologist. May the spirit of the land bless him.

{"commentId":6086840,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
  • 4 votes
#1.11 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:05 AM EDT
{"commentId":6087201,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

Deep Ecology never attempts to claim any "facts" except that we should take a step back and let nature take its course, sans both overt attempts to sully it and overt attempts to "fix" it. These both being homocentric. Rather it suggests we provide nature with as clean a slate as we can to do with what it will. We most assuredly are not doing that. Note the "clean slate" bit. It doesn't suggest - at all - that we should just carry on, business as usual, nor does it suggest we should do nothing to "help" the environment. Rather, we should remove human-made impediments to natural healing of human-caused trauma. That is both logical, and at odds with your anecdote, above. Ergo, your friend may well be a technologist, but I doubt he was ever as true an environmentalist as you claim - although there is nothing that says you can't be both.

{"commentId":6087201,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 3 votes
#1.12 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:42 AM EDT
{"commentId":6087360,"authorDomain":"me2berry2000"}

Peter Merel, I see where you are coming from now but your logic seems circular, to me. You are kind of arguing both ends to the middle. There is no reason why we can not do both, conserve and engineer a healthier world.

What is wrong with limiting pollution, with addressing what we consume so that we don't leave our children and our greatgrand children a garbage dump for a world?

IMHO your argument is like why keep my house clean, buildings exist long after the humans that occupy them are gone so if my house is inhabitable because of my filthiness, so what? In a sense you are right so what, except your wife may leave you, your children contract diseases and die for most people that would be tragic.

Most people love their family, wife included and want to provide a home that is conducive to the health and well being of their family. Most people don't take the stance that I am not going to clean my house until we have technology that makes my home self cleaning.

We do have big problems but I say lets do some house cleaning, change our habits to promote cleaner living and yes invent some apparatuses that clean for us.

{"commentId":6087360,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"me2berry2000"}
  • 10 votes
#1.13 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:58 AM EDT
{"commentId":6087446,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

phoenixrising

...We do have big problems but I say lets do some house cleaning, change our habits to promote cleaner living and yes invent some apparatuses that clean for us.

From beginning to end, your comment is a breath of fresh air, so to speak. ê¿~

{"commentId":6087446,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 9 votes
#1.14 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:06 AM EDT
{"commentId":6094457,"authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
we should take a step back and let nature take its course, sans both overt attempts to sully it and overt attempts to "fix" it

The facts of our situation suggest nature's course involves the extinction of our civilization, and likely our species. Perhaps you're right, and that would be best.

I doubt he was ever as true an environmentalist

I don't know if he was. I know he believes he was.

What is wrong with limiting pollution, with addressing what we consume so that we don't leave our children and our greatgrand children a garbage dump for a world?

This is not a problem for our children or great grand children. This is our problem, right now. You see, "the greatest shortcoming of the human race is its inability to understand the exponential function". So it is our generation that will choke. If we go just a little further down this path our surviving children will be few, and there may not be any grand children. That is the spirit of the land healing itself - eternal decay and renewal.

Does this mean we should not limit pollution? No, it means limiting pollution is futile. To survive, we require a technological and social change that consumes our pollution for our living purposes, and brings our unsustainable exponential growth to a soft landing. Right now these changes are inconceivable - they're a science fantasy. But so too is conservation a science fantasy - it is not possible to meaningfully conserve any environmental condition given our present global population.

your wife may leave you, your children contract diseases and die for most people that would be tragic.

I don't know whether you've come to grips with the scale of the tragedy facing us. Look again at Karl_'s inspiring photos. Do you see any humans there? Monument valley cannot support us. Jasper might support a small population of hunter-gatherers - say a few thousand - without intensive agriculture. There are enough places like Jasper left on the planet for, perhaps, a few million humans to adopt a comprehensive culture of self-sufficiency. Can we do that? Will we?

The billions of the rest of us require exponentially increasing quantities of oil and fertilizer to survive. The extraction rate limits of these substances are already upon us. It is too late to conserve. It is perhaps too late to invent. The spirit of the Land will have its justice then.

Your comments recall to me LeGuin's exquisite "Always Coming Home", If you enjoyed Karl_'s poem you'd adore that work. LeGuin envisions a future relationship between humans and the land that is heart-breaking in its loveliness, intimacy, and absence. Then, suddenly, she is consumed with remorse:

Have I burned all the libraries of Babel? Was it I that burned them? If they burn, it will be all of us that burned them. [...] Many as we are, there's still too much to carry. It is a dead weight. Even if we keep breeding ten babies every second to bear the load of Civilization forward into the future, they can't take it. [...] So I killed them all off. You may have noticed that the real difference between us and the Valley, the big difference, is quite a small thing really. There are not too many of them.

Was it I that killed the babies?

[...] All I did was open the box Prometheus left with me. I knew what would come out of it!

{"commentId":6094457,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
  • 1 vote
#1.15 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:58 PM EDT
{"commentId":6094732,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}
Karl_Restored

Peter Merel

We are getting way off track here. You have enough material to seed your own article. You are hijacking this thread. Please desist. Else I will start reviewing your comments with negative eyes, CoH in hand, deleting anything that seems off topic, and I can see a few.

You are hijacking this thread. Give it a break.

{"commentId":6094732,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 6 votes
#1.16 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:20 PM EDT
{"commentId":6094738,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
The facts of our situation suggest nature's course involves the extinction of our civilization, and likely our species

Facts are mutable. Just ask Malthus. And we are a part of nature, so that logic is faulty on its face. I do not think the removal of our species would be "for the best" - because then you'd have to provide me a perspective that isn't homo-centric, and I think you'll have trouble finding one to communicate with, much less one that speaks for All Who Are Not Human.

We are agents of environmental change, and whether that is good or bad depends largely on your perspective. Hawks, raccoons, coyotes, are very much in favor of what we've done, so far. But, being agents of change, with rational minds, we can make choices about which direction that change is going. We will never turn Earth into a pre-man utopia - and we shouldn't try. This does not mean we should just use it all up and live life like its the end days and hope Mother Earth cleans up like the day after a messy party.

There is nothing that says, definitively, that what we have now, or had 100 years ago, or 1000, or 10,000, was the "perfect" Earth. That the diversity of life is exactly right - that we shouldn't have more, or less (or, conversely, that we should). These things are all assumptions - and we should not assume that the Earth itself does not change, just as it would change were we not here. But we are in a unique situation where we can both affect such change, and do something about it.

No one said it was going to be easy, or that any "solution" would be perfect. That would be a lie. But, as I have said again and again, we not only damage the Earth but stand in the way of its healing itself. And, as I have said again and again, we, too, are nature.

We have a right to be here. And diversity and climate control and the like seem, at present, to be the best bets to keep us here, longer. Giving up is not an option, and most certainly not a Darwinian imperative (species-wide). So we do what can be done, and hope for the best. But doing nothing? That's just a cop-out. And, you know what, if ever you get cancer and choose to do nothing about it, have right at it, I'll support your right to make that decision. But doing nothing when it holds, together, the lives of billions (of humans, and billions more of other of nature's animals) in its hands, is frankly the more presumptuous option on the table, IMHO, rather than the presumption that we haven't the power to make meaningful change. Because, you know, we haven't even begun to try.

{"commentId":6094738,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 1 vote
#1.17 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:21 PM EDT
{"commentId":6094789,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

Chasing,

I sense that you will desist if I ask you. This thread has gone askew. Perhaps Peter Merel an you can agree on a forum to pursue this discussion

{"commentId":6094789,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 7 votes
#1.18 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:26 PM EDT
{"commentId":6094957,"authorDomain":"chasing"}

Actually I do not find that this thread has gone askew, and it most certainly has not been threadjacked, as you accuse Peter (and perhaps myself) of doing. You posted a piece that sparked debate - that's what Newsvine is for. You say "Let us work for a better Tomorrow", yet stifle conversation on how to do just that (even though you seemed fine with it earlier). I take it you just instead were looking for a pat on your back involving this piece? Perhaps you should delist it from the "Climate Change" group, then. But desist I shall. Just beware in future that when you open a can, worms might come out.

{"commentId":6094957,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"chasing"}
  • 1 vote
#1.19 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:39 PM EDT
{"commentId":6094974,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

Take it elsewhere guys.

Here is the list of tags that associated with this seed at the outset:

, , , , , ,
I can understand a temporary drift into opposing ecological views, but this has persisted.
I intend to enforce this seed's topic from this point onward.

{"commentId":6094974,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 9 votes
#1.20 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:41 PM EDT
{"commentId":6095256,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

Chasing,

I just checked the groups it has been sent to and now see your point.

However, I only attached one group to this article: "Friends". I was not aware, until now that it had been attached to "Climate Change". Some commentators asked me if they could attached it to some specific other groups and I agreed. But you just pointed the Climate Change one, that is news to me. I was not aware of it.

I will try to see what I can do.

It has gone too far for me to correct this.

{"commentId":6095256,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 7 votes
#1.21 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:02 PM EDT
{"commentId":6095269,"authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}

Apologies, Karl_, I wasn't intending to threadjack.

My thoughts were inspired directly by your article but I'm happy to collect and move them. Please leave them in place until I have time to do that.

I'll post a link to the new article and you may delete my bits here after that if you want.

Namaste.

{"commentId":6095269,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
  • 3 votes
#1.22 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:03 PM EDT
{"commentId":6095504,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

Peter Merel,

Chasing made a point about it being attached to the group Climate Change. I now understand your dialogue. It did not make sense to me before.

I don't even belong to it - unless I have been added to that group yesterday.

I will suggest a compromise: I see as "Climate Change" tab at the beginning of the comment block.

You could continue your ecological discussion on that tab. If you do, I will mop up my previous comment and interested parties will follow you under the Climate Change Tab.

{"commentId":6095504,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 6 votes
#1.23 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:19 PM EDT
{"commentId":6095819,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

I will not delete any of your previous comments and will leave them as is.

{"commentId":6095819,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
  • 6 votes
#1.24 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:40 PM EDT
{"commentId":6198227,"authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}

It's frustrating and annoying when people do not show any respect to the wishes of the seeder when He specifically requested/asked to bring the subject back to A Pagan's Incantation.

I'm sorry Karl, this happened to A Pagan's Incantation I wish everyone could see the plea in it.

{"commentId":6198227,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}
  • 3 votes
#1.25 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:06 PM EDT
{"commentId":6198373,"authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}

I confess I'm a little confused, Roxy. As soon as Karl made his request both Chasing and I honored it. If any disrespect is apparent in this thread, it is unintentional.

{"commentId":6198373,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
  • 2 votes
#1.26 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:22 PM EDT
{"commentId":6198466,"authorDomain":"nearing"}

gorgeous poem!

If only we would wake up and let it shine.

{"commentId":6198466,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"nearing"}
  • 4 votes
#1.27 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:32 PM EDT
{"commentId":6204469,"authorDomain":"notavalid"}

A quick search pulled up the MSDS for mustard gas. In it, it claims that mustard gas can stay active in soil for up to three years.

I very highly doubt there was any left in that ground by the 1980's.

{"commentId":6204469,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"notavalid"}
    #1.28 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:47 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6207355,"authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}

    @Cipher-0

    Thanks! I wondered about that part myself.

    {"commentId":6207355,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"PeterMerel"}
    • 1 vote
    #1.29 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:46 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6072259,"authorDomain":"kimmy123"}

    I am Kim and I approve this message.

    Thank you Karl. A shining spot in a religious darkness.

    {"commentId":6072259,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kimmy123"}
    • 10 votes
    Reply#2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:49 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6074193,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Thank you, Kim. Let us build a better world.

    {"commentId":6074193,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 12 votes
    #2.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:14 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6200242,"authorDomain":"pges01"}

    Dude; thank you, you made my day.

    namaste

    {"commentId":6200242,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"pges01"}
    • 5 votes
    #2.2 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:25 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6201795,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    In the Vein,

    I am very grateful since your comment made mine.

    Karl

    {"commentId":6201795,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 5 votes
    #2.3 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:16 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6072400,"authorDomain":"patricolsen"}

    Very beautiful Karl, and inspiring of hope! Great pictures also I might add:)

    {"commentId":6072400,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"patricolsen"}
    • 11 votes
    Reply#3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:45 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6074451,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Thank you Hekofawoman.

    Very beautiful [...], and inspiring of hope!

    I am glad that this article brought you something.

    Great pictures also I might add

    I got those wonderful pictures from a sight, whose URL I wrote under their frames, that offers their private use to individuals for free. I stumbled on that sight after having searched for a while.

    {"commentId":6074451,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 7 votes
    #3.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:34 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6072456,"authorDomain":"debrabsams"}

    AMEN!!!

    {"commentId":6072456,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"debrabsams"}
    • 11 votes
    Reply#4 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:09 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6073740,"authorDomain":"pmags"}

    A good 'un. Why the politics tag, though? Its true, animists, by definition, are bound to respect and thereby protect, Nature.

    {"commentId":6073740,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"pmags"}
    • 7 votes
    Reply#5 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:34 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6074174,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Hello magz,

    Why the politics tag, though? Its true, animists, by definition, are bound to respect and thereby protect, Nature.

    Your comment is very interesting. You saw boundaries and found a definition for something that I spontaneously wrote with neither frame nor domain.

    If it brought you something positive, you will have made my day.

    {"commentId":6074174,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 8 votes
    #5.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:13 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6094970,"authorDomain":"chasing"}
    animists, by definition, are bound to respect and thereby protect, Nature.

    Many animists feel bound to, but that is not "by definition".

    //detracking

    {"commentId":6094970,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"chasing"}
    • 2 votes
    #5.2 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:41 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6074245,"authorDomain":"abcrow"}

    This is just beautiful, Karl and your words match the majesty of the pictures of God's gifts. I've clipped this to several groups -- hope that's okay.

    {"commentId":6074245,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"abcrow"}
    • 9 votes
    Reply#6 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:18 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6074714,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Thank you ann in Texas, the numinous is in and around us.

    I've clipped this to several groups -- hope that's okay.

    I could not attach it to more groups because I do not yet have the proper connections. Your doing so certainly helps. Thank you.

    {"commentId":6074714,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 10 votes
    #6.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:52 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6096255,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    ann in Texas,

    It is now Sunday evening. I just now realize that the topic of one of the group that I implicitly agreed you could add this seed to has given me a hard time: Climate Change... I did not notice it and did not realize its full impact until this seed was becoming a Climate Change one.

    However we all meant well. It was unexpected!

    {"commentId":6096255,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 10 votes
    #6.2 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:12 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6097336,"authorDomain":"abcrow"}

    I'm sorry I clipped it there as this has veered off course some, Karl. My apologies.

    {"commentId":6097336,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"abcrow"}
    • 8 votes
    #6.3 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:52 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6097393,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    ann in Texas

    Please do not apolpgies. That was not what you had in mind. You meant well.

    {"commentId":6097393,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 8 votes
    #6.4 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:57 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8202061,"authorDomain":"Willow-124447"}

    Beautiful, just beautiful.

    {"commentId":8202061,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Willow-124447"}
    • 3 votes
    #6.5 - Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:04 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6074867,"authorDomain":"me2berry2000"}

    Exquisite from its inception, you words powerfully express the power, beauty and glory of this land.

    I have traveled cross country and view many beautiful sites. As I would look out at the horizon and the land, I would think of the Native American sitting on his horse with the tear flowing down his cheek as he observed the pollution. (Old commercial)

    I can't remember the caption but I vividly remember the emotion evoked. This is a beautiful planet, one that should be respected and now one that must be protected. I think that your poem beautifully connects this sentiment.

    {"commentId":6074867,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"me2berry2000"}
    • 11 votes
    Reply#7 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:04 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6075524,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    phoenixrising

    Thank you. We have fallen for the delusion of dominance and power. We proclaim our might over nature, over the will of our fellow humans. There is a humbling and deadly price awaiting us on that road.

    I believe that all is not lost. We can still make amends. We still have a chance to be our brothers keeper. We still have a chance to treat this planet as if we care, and intend to live here.

    {"commentId":6075524,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 10 votes
    #7.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:50 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6075685,"authorDomain":"me2berry2000"}
    We still have a chance to treat this planet as if we care, and intend to live here.

    Karl, the planet is so much bigger than us it will demand that we respect it or suffer the consequences.

    I hope that we have learned from the past and won't continue down the path that would lead to our own demise. I hope we head into the future with reverance and respect for the earth.

    {"commentId":6075685,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"me2berry2000"}
    • 9 votes
    #7.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:02 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6075701,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    I hope we head into the future with reverance and respect for the earth.

    Yes!

    {"commentId":6075701,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 9 votes
    #7.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:03 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":6075044,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

    Happy Equinox!

    {"commentId":6075044,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    • 10 votes
    Reply#8 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 AM EDT
    {"commentId":6075676,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    I just noticed that the Equinox was yesterday March 20th! I was puzzled here for a second since I had never paid attention to that event before.

    Your wish reminds me that I am only an incidental pagan that had a message for those who care, regardless of their creeds.

    Happy Equinox to you!

    {"commentId":6075676,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 8 votes
    #8.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6076175,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

    ....incidental Pagan, eh?...

    The "Whatevers" move in mysterious ways...

    There is a natural mystic flowing throught the air. If you listen carefully now you will hear.

    Don't ask me why...

    {"commentId":6076175,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    • 11 votes
    #8.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:38 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6076232,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    I hear... I hear many instruments in that symphony.

    {"commentId":6076232,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 11 votes
    #8.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:43 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6076467,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

    ...yet these many instruments are not a cacophony.

    In the concert hall there is a magic moment when the individual instruments are tuning and tweaking and getting ready to perform Mozart, Cage, Beethoven, Glass. There is a tap tap tap of the conductor's baton on the music stand and the slightest moment of silence as the orchestra inhales and puts their minds in unison. There is a palpapable concentration of thought, spirit and body. The music starts. We , the audience, the players, the support staff that keeps the auditorium standing and the funds rolling and the network of supporters and contributers and the loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires and babies are witnesses to this minor miracle.

    What is your name for that hiatus, that gap, the lacuna between the thought and the action?

    "Whoa, I gotta get going. This is Saturday morning and I've got to carry a lot of water today. Peace out brah."

    {"commentId":6076467,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    • 10 votes
    #8.4 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:00 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6077456,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Spooky Boyfriend,

    I read your metaphor with acute attention. We have not been on the same path and have to negotiate our symbols and vocabularies:

    You stated an intent whose time has come. A pause after the Conductor's tap tap. A pregnant pause that will give birth to a new symphony whose players are now attuned. Intriguing.

    The poem of this seed woke me up around 03:00 demanding to be expressed at once. Check its time stamp 04:14 a.m., the day after an Equinox that you seem to celebrate.

    I have been on a path, a solitary one. What is your symphony, who is the Master in your metaphor? I will only play for One.

    You intrigue me. I have sent you a note.

    Regards.

    {"commentId":6077456,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 9 votes
    #8.5 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:17 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6080853,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    Spooky BoyfriendDeleted
    {"commentId":6081196,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Spooky Boyfriend,

    You have tabled a lot of subjects here and have crossed my subjective "Too-much-at-once" line. I will stick to the present where most of the parameters are immediate and relatively verifiable.

    I went to your nihilistic link where it would take me a long time to sift through its data that, at first glance, lays far from my path.

    The possibly nihilistic nature of our universe does not preclude our choosing to polarize most issues in order to have them make sense to us. Take a Rubik cube, for instance. It has neither absolute top nor absolute sides. Yet in order to solve it, we have to arbitrarily pick sides so to speak. Once we have decided what colors shall be the top and front, the rest falls into place, and we can start from then, and only then, working on a solution.

    In my view, our very birth breaks the nihilistic pattern in the same way that when I stand up and shout "The silence is broken", my shout generates its own reality and shatters the silence.

    This has drifted off subject. But thanks for your input, Spooky Boyfriend.

    {"commentId":6081196,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 9 votes
    #8.7 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:52 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6081318,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

    You are welcome and thank you for being you.

    {"commentId":6081318,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    • 6 votes
    #8.8 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:07 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6188192,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Spooky Boyfriend,

    After careful deliberation, I have decided to delete your disingenuous copy paste of the lyrics of Bob Marley's lyrics of "Natural Mystic" at #8.6.

    Your action went against Newsvine's Code of Honor article 4.a

    {"commentId":6188192,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 5 votes
    #8.9 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:08 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6188821,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

    Karl •·¿•·

    How can quoting Bob Marley lyrics be considered disingenuousness?

    Using the broadest definition of the word.... How is this not being candid or sincere, How can this be pretending that one knows less about something than one really does when it's a quote?

    I think you need to find a different term to express your reasoning on this and reevaluate it.

    {"commentId":6188821,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
    • 4 votes
    #8.10 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:31 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6198017,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

    "... I have decided to delete your disingenuous copy paste of the lyrics of Bob Marley's lyrics of "Natural Mystic... "

    Disingenuous? Huh... Oh well...

    Forgive any offense or infraction made by repeating the lyrics of Bob Marley's lyrics. See ya. Looks like you've got bigger problems on your thread than me...

    {"commentId":6198017,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    • 3 votes
    #8.11 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:42 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6198034,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    Looks like you've got bigger problems on your thread than me...

    True!

    {"commentId":6198034,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 4 votes
    #8.12 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:43 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6198158,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus

    How can quoting Bob Marley lyrics be considered disingenuousness?

    That quote was against CoH rules:

    1) He copied someone elses work and pasted it here.

    2) He did not clearly indicate, right here, the source of his comment.

    3) Pasting this work here was disingenuous since its meaning - isolated from its source - was misleading.

    How is this not being candid or sincere, How can this be pretending that one knows less about something than one really does when it's a quote?

    It was not a quote. It was pasted without attributing ownership to Mr Marley.

    {"commentId":6198158,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 4 votes
    #8.13 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:58 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6198245,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

    ....hey, wait a second here. I'm sorry for you if you did not recognize the reference to the Well known Bob Marley hymn "Natural Mystic". I also included a link to a YouTube site of Bob's concert footage of the same song on the entry.

    Do you really think I'm trying to rip of Bob Marley by posting his lyrics? You need more Bob in your diet.

    {"commentId":6198245,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
    • 1 vote
    #8.14 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:08 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6199020,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

    Spooky Boyfriend,

    My ignorance is wide and deep, and I confess not knowing any song of Bob Marley. Your assumption underlines how much I have to learn.

    Do you really think I'm trying to rip of Bob Marley by posting his lyrics?

    I will certainly concede your good will since I obviously was the only one fooled by my own ignorance of Mr Marley's songs.

    You need more Bob in your diet.

    Can I consume Mr Marley's lyrics without the music? *I am on a mental diet.

    {"commentId":6199020,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
    • 6 votes
    #8.15 - Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:26 PM EDT
    {"commentId":6200451,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

    Karl... There is letter of the Law and there is spirt of the law, do you know why that quote is not a CoH violation... I don't have to give credit to the author... For the same reason the Bob Marley or any Lyrcs when you don't take credit and try to make a profit... is not a CoH violation, is not plagiarism. And even by law I can past this anywhere, the COTUS is open source.

    this is mine

    Quotes given just for the sake of making them, that aren't pertinent, don't give support to any opinion you are trying to make, or to the subject being discussed are non sequitur and pretentious. Daniel A. Hallo ©1999

    {"commentId":6200451,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
      #8.16 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:51 AM EDT
      {"commentId":6201825,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

      Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus,

      I appreciate your concerns. There is an appeal mechanism here. Please send a note to the Newsvine administrators stating your disagreement, and they will restore Spooky's comment if they agree with your judgment.

      {"commentId":6201825,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
      • 4 votes
      #8.17 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:26 AM EDT
      {"commentId":6202041,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

      Wahhhh. I'll let those with the mentality to go cry to mommy rather then deal with their own problems for that. Why don't you give Spooky Boyfriend the benefit of the doubt, or are you infallible? Then if you are what are you afraid of?

      oh oh.. gotta go ...cookies and milk....

      "I love a man who frees me from an error as much as one who apprehends me of a truth, for in effect an error corrected is a truth.' Georges-Louis Leclerc

      {"commentId":6202041,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
        #8.18 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:26 AM EDT
        {"commentId":6202145,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

        Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus,

        I did not appreciate the pasting of the full lyrics of a song in this blog. I would not have liked it even if he had quoted his source, since he lifted the whole thing from a URL. A URL link would have been appropriate.

        We do not have the same sense of ethics. The negative import of your arguments here can be avoided by a simple appeal. You can appeal this if you don't like it or keep listening to yourself and persist off topic until I delete you as well.

        There is an appeal mechanism here. Use it or get back to the subject of this seed.

        {"commentId":6202145,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
        • 4 votes
        #8.19 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:45 AM EDT
        {"commentId":6202174,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

        OK, now It's ethics... "I'm not you are".

        Fine goodbye.

        {"commentId":6202174,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
          #8.20 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:49 AM EDT
          {"commentId":6207470,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

          Karl, Karlster, Karl-ste-rooni, Karl-burger, Karl brah, You are one zany cat!

          I am ignorant too. I am a rootless cosmopolitan who is steeped in the rituals and traditions of a enveloping culture.

          I assumed everybody knows Bob Marley. I am incorrect. Jeez, you didn't even know when Spring started. My bad. Thought I was tryin' to help. Peace.

          {"commentId":6207470,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
          • 3 votes
          #8.21 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:00 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6207638,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Peace

          {"commentId":6207638,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 3 votes
          #8.22 - Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:21 PM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":6076060,"authorDomain":"dd-evans69301"}

          Very nice Karl_, and as previously stated, beautiful pictures. Thank you for this.

          *smiles*

          {"commentId":6076060,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"dd-evans69301"}
          • 11 votes
          Reply#9 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:31 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6076942,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}

          I hope you don't mind, I clipped this to Pagan Tea House.

          I have always said that I felt we should take better care of our Mother (Earth) as she has given us so much beauty and wonder. It is up to us to see and listen for the symphony she sets out for us in the abundance of colors and sounds. Even the stillness has beauty. Thank you for reminding me of this.

          {"commentId":6076942,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
          • 7 votes
          Reply#10 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:36 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6077768,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Sim2Luv

          I hope you don't mind, I clipped this to Pagan Tea House.

          I welcome all that bring us together and thank you for sharing your forum.

          we should take better care of our Mother (Earth) as she has given us so much beauty and wonder. It is up to us to see and listen for the symphony she sets out for us in the abundance of colors and sounds. Even the stillness has beauty

          I admire and espouse your feelings in this matter.

          There is a symbiosis that has not yet been discussed in this seed. Could we be Nature's eyes reflecting on herself? Are we the Singer and the song? Can - or will - Nature dress up in her best attributes to cradle us, without our facilitating such an advent? Those are innocent questions that I ponder sometimes, even though the last one was purely rhetorical.

          Sim2Luv, I thank you for your thoughts.

          {"commentId":6077768,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 7 votes
          Reply#11 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:45 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6077991,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

          Lovely, Karl. Your poem reminds me of a Navaho prayer, so the desert photo was especially resonant. I thought I might slip a lighthearted but apt summary of religious truth in here.

          Taoism: @!$%# Happens.
          Buddhism: If @!$%# happens, it really isn't @!$%#.
          Hinduism: This @!$%# has happened before.
          Islam: If @!$%# happens, it is the will of Allah.
          Catholicism: @!$%# happens because you deserve it.
          Protestantism: Work harder or @!$%# will happen.
          Materialist: Whoever dies with the most @!$%# wins!
          Atheist: I can't believe this @!$%#!
          Judaism: Why does this @!$%# always happen to us?
          Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this @!$%#!

          I think this is more profound than it may seem. I see that the Vinelord has deleted my language, the word there is sh*t.

          {"commentId":6077991,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}
          • 13 votes
          Reply#12 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:05 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6078185,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          YES !!!

          Thank you gladbutterfly ♥♥♥. It does a fabulous job, shrinking each of those philosophies into a single expression!

          I may print, plasticize, frame and hang this on my office wall, as a study in concision.
          ê¿ê

          {"commentId":6078185,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 10 votes
          #12.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:23 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6078313,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

          Yeah, I love it too.

          {"commentId":6078313,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}
          • 6 votes
          #12.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:34 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6078344,"authorDomain":"cyril1917"}

          I've also heard Buddhism's as "What is the sound of $#!% happening?"

          {"commentId":6078344,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"cyril1917"}
          • 7 votes
          #12.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:36 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6078359,"authorDomain":"pmags"}

          #12

          @!$%#. hahahahahahahahahaha!

          Gardener: cow@!$%# is best.

          Animist: There will always be @!$%#.

          Man, this could go on and on, but I have somewhere to go. Look out Karl_, gladbutterfly may have just started a really @!$%#ty sub-thread here.

          {"commentId":6078359,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"pmags"}
          • 5 votes
          #12.4 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:37 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6078406,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Nope: The $#!% stops here.

          It was fun while it lasted.
          ê¿ê


          {"commentId":6078406,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 9 votes
          #12.5 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:42 PM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":6078351,"authorDomain":"cyril1917"}

          Great poem. So mote it be.

          {"commentId":6078351,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"cyril1917"}
          • 4 votes
          Reply#13 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:37 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6078462,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Yosho, I am glad you are contributing. May I invite you to correct your typographic error? It obliterated the meaning you wanted to convey! Thanks

          {"commentId":6078462,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 7 votes
          #13.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:47 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081773,"authorDomain":"TxOilman"}

          Karl,

          Loved the poem. Thank you for posting it.

          As an aside for future reference, The saying "So mote it be", is Wiccan. It simply means; As it is said, so it be.

          {"commentId":6081773,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"TxOilman"}
          • 6 votes
          #13.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:48 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081888,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Warren B

          Ahhhh!

          My ignorance is vast and deep. Thank you for your clarification.

          And Yosho, please accept my apologies. Thank you for your positive thought. ✿

          Regards.

          {"commentId":6081888,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 8 votes
          #13.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:57 PM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":6079528,"authorDomain":"MrsBrady"}

          Truly Beautiful !!

          {"commentId":6079528,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"MrsBrady"}
          • 7 votes
          Reply#14 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:14 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6079708,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Thank you Mrs Brady.

          {"commentId":6079708,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 6 votes
          #14.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:28 PM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":6080162,"authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}

          This article is being featured on the MSN site as a "top pick" today.

          {"commentId":6080162,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}
          • 8 votes
          Reply#15 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:10 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081260,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Huh?

          {"commentId":6081260,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 6 votes
          #15.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:00 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081301,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

          ...yup, you are nearly famous...

          Relish this fifteen minutes.

          {"commentId":6081301,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
          • 6 votes
          #15.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:05 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081840,"authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}

          Karl (#15.1): It's for real. It showed up on my Windows Vista "gadgets"; one of those things that provide updated news recomendations.

          {"commentId":6081840,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}
          • 10 votes
          #15.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:53 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081924,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Snakedoctor,

          This is flattering, but my wife will never believe it! Haaa ha ha...

          Thanks for the good news.
          It certainly feels better than a kick in the posterior.

          ê¿ê

          {"commentId":6081924,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 10 votes
          #15.4 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:00 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6088668,"authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}

          Karl (#15.4): Re: "This is flattering, but my wife will never believe it!".

          I comiserate, none of my various ex wives ever believed much I had to say. But, it's my fault for marrying smart ones?

          {"commentId":6088668,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}
          • 4 votes
          #15.5 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT
          {"commentId":6098208,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          my various ex wives

          Hum mm... What is your plan? Keep on trying until you get it right? ê¿ê

          {"commentId":6098208,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 4 votes
          #15.6 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:17 AM EDT
          {"commentId":6099591,"authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}

          Karl (#15.6): Even a dumbass, aka me, can finally learn. Someone or other said: "you can either love women or understand them". I presently have a girlfriend (probably an inappropriate term at my age) 30 years younger, we get along wonderfully, for which I am thankful each day. I love women and she loves men; neither of us want someone around the house all of the time. Actually I've only been "legally" married once. I worked out of the USA for 30+ years, my "arrangements" then seemed practical at the time.

          Sorry, did not mean to give an autobiography. I've enjoyed your topic very much. It is a much needed positive relief from the usual NV pessimism. It is Springtime down here on my farm, your article was beautifully timed for us. You will laugh, but girlfriend was down this weekend, she read it. We went to town bought flowers and planted them; obviously dedicated to you. She wants to put a copy of "A Pagan's Incantation" in our new flower garden down by the creek.

          Thanks again for your post, Snake

          {"commentId":6099591,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}
          • 6 votes
          #15.7 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:53 AM EDT
          {"commentId":6100038,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Snakedoctor,

          I love women and she loves men

          A match made in heaven, so to speak. You have added here a very pleasant touch to this seed. I could not resist the quip that escaped me earlier and meant it as a friendly banter: Humor is my basic fuel additive. Thank you for recognizing it.

          You will laugh, but girlfriend was down this weekend, she read it. We went to town bought flowers and planted them; obviously dedicated to you. She wants to put a copy of "A Pagan's Incantation" in our new flower garden down by the creek.

          I cannot laugh here. It will belong there.
          Please tell her that this symbol touched me, and that she made my day. ✿ ✿ ✿

          Regards,

          Karl

          {"commentId":6100038,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 8 votes
          #15.8 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:52 AM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":6080534,"authorDomain":"blessed-isles"}

          Well deserved. Bravo, Karl_!

          {"commentId":6080534,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"blessed-isles"}
          • 6 votes
          Reply#16 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081982,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          Thank you Briwnys. The virtual proximity of the commentators here, feel somewhat more substantial than a mute crowd from afar.

          {"commentId":6081982,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 8 votes
          #16.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:05 PM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":6081381,"authorDomain":"robertlyn-schultz"}

          Hey Karl,

          Nice one Brother, the wild places are just that...Wild, and it is our blessing to use those places wisely. Here are a few lines from a poem I am working on, it seems that they are appropriate to share with you:

          The wheel turns and the trees grow,

          Animals run and the rivers flow,

          Man can find all he needs,

          Basking in the Suns glow.

          X^)

          All my best,

          Aloha

          {"commentId":6081381,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"robertlyn-schultz"}
          • 7 votes
          Reply#17 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:13 PM EDT
          {"commentId":6081770,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

          We share our love for nature. Your poem sounds complete!

          Thank you for writing it here.

          {"commentId":6081770,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
          • 9 votes
          #17.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:48 PM EDT
          Reply
          {"commentId":6082266,"authorDomain":"Zihark"}

          So uh, where was this spirit of the land all those years? In hiding?

          {"commentId":6082266,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zihark"}
            Reply#18 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:28 PM EDT
            {"commentId":6082446,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

            I have been expecting you all day...
            I will not thank you for dropping by.

            {"commentId":6082446,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
            • 7 votes
            #18.1 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:41 PM EDT
            {"commentId":6082505,"authorDomain":"Zihark"}

            Lol - just pointing out that while your incant sounds nice, it's meaning is hollow. I sensed a void of anything resembling truth. Sorry I was so glib, but sometimes pretty language just doesn't cut to the point fast enough. Thus, methinks you got it and simply trying to avoid defending what you know to be wishful thinking.

            {"commentId":6082505,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zihark"}
              #18.2 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:46 PM EDT
              {"commentId":6082627,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

              ZiharkXVI,

              You missed the point entirely...

              Shed some poison and give yourself a second chance, and life a second try. You have no friends in newsvine. I was expecting you. Your presence here is part of a relentless pattern. You are but a tool and don't know what moves you. Stay or leave. Spill your bile. Do your thing.

              You carry your own hell with you.

              {"commentId":6082627,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
              • 9 votes
              #18.3 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:56 PM EDT
              {"commentId":6082707,"authorDomain":"Zihark"}

              And what, pray tell, was the point? Do explain it to a "tool" like myself. I merely give you a criticism and suddenly I become a "part of a relentless pattern?" Did you expect your piece to be perfect? Did you expect everyone to feel the same vibe you felt writing it?

              Fortunately for myself, I don't feel the "hell" I so obviously flaunt. But I never accused you of being anything. Makes me wonder who's really feeling the urge to spill bile. You call me all sorts of pathetic, childish things and then accuse me of being the one with "poison?" Check my words.

              {"commentId":6082707,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zihark"}
                #18.4 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:03 PM EDT
                {"commentId":6082715,"authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}

                Karl (#18.1): You're a wise man. Wise enough not to dignify inanity with a response.

                Please have a nice evening, Snake

                {"commentId":6082715,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"snakedoctor"}
                • 5 votes
                #18.5 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:03 PM EDT
                {"commentId":6082802,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                Thank you Snakedoctor.

                {"commentId":6082802,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                • 7 votes
                #18.6 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:12 PM EDT
                Reply
                {"commentId":6082853,"authorDomain":"Zihark"}

                ......and thus the stony silence signify the strong strands that the Spirit would wish to solidify with the slighted.

                In other words, what message are we sending now when our lips are sealed? How strikingly cold, how unkind to shut out someone who merely does not understand. Or perhaps it is true what that someone thinks?

                Oh my, Snakedoctor, your words tell all.

                {"commentId":6082853,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zihark"}
                  Reply#19 - Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:17 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6087013,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  Reflections on this bipolar world (*Light and Darkness)

                  Here are, in respective order, the attributes promoted in my poem, A Pagan's Incantation:

                    Justice,
                    Peace,
                    Beauty,
                    Wisdom,
                    Fraternity.

                  They are all framed within our native cradle, Nature, for whom we wish to care.
                  What is in here that attracts hostility and discord?

                  Yet this poem disturbs. This should be expected. Light implies darkness and entropy prevails. When you show the Light, expect Darkness to seep out of its den and wail.

                  This should not stop us from transcending this level, and sing our song.
                  It will not stop me from denouncing the ploys that entrap us, and show the plot to those who care.

                    Eyes to better blind us.
                    Ears to better shut our minds to the truth.
                    And a heart, that lodestone
                    that shall bring us together.

                  For those who care I say, live in Wisdom, Justice, Peace, Beauty and Fraternity.

                  Regards,

                  Karl

                  {"commentId":6087013,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 8 votes
                  Reply#20 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:25 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":6089828,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

                  Hey, Karl! Your comment on light and darkness, good and evil, relates directly to my Sunday Seed: The Most Optimistic Thought I Have Ever Encountered.

                  {"commentId":6089828,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}
                  • 9 votes
                  #20.1 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:59 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6090443,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  gladbutterfly,

                  I read your "The Most Optimistic Thought I Have Ever Encountered" with a great deal of interest and recommend it. You may care to review the Nihilism concept before reading my comment #8.7 which I find much more pertinent to your article than the one I made here since comment #8.7 precedes this one in the cause-effect chain. It expounds on the necessity, in this universe, to polarize issues in order for them to make sense to us. I am going to enter a short note in your article(short for now).

                  gladbutterfly, I am always glad to see you in my seeds.


                  {"commentId":6090443,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 7 votes
                  #20.2 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  {"commentId":6088409,"authorDomain":"jjp"}

                  Beautiful poem. Nature has much to teach and we have much to learn.

                  Meditate, oft. Separate thyself for a season from the cares of the world. Get close to nature and learn from the lowliest of that which manifests in nature, in the earth; in the birds, in the trees, in the grass, in the flowers, in the bees; that the life of each is a manifesting, is a song of glory to its Maker. And do thou likewise!

                  Edgar Cayce Reading 1089-3

                  {"commentId":6088409,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"jjp"}
                  • 5 votes
                  Reply#21 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:27 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":6088735,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  JJP,

                  I am very glad you like it. Many decades ago I read all of the available publications on Edgar Cayce at the time, and found very wise and profound comments in his readings. Some of his forecast events time frames came and went without apparently coming to pass. Yet I still find an impressive depth to his work. I should do some digging and bring myself up to date on how he is perceived today.

                  I appreciated your input.

                  Thanks, JJP

                  {"commentId":6088735,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 7 votes
                  #21.1 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:50 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":6102188,"authorDomain":"jjp"}

                  Unfortunately Cayce has become most known for his prophecies even though they are a very small part of his work.

                  I have found the physical readings to be quite helpful. However I most like the information that came through the life readings as they are thought provoking and insightful. In case you would like to check out the A.R.E.'s main web-site, here is the link www.edgarcayce.org.

                  {"commentId":6102188,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"jjp"}
                  • 2 votes
                  #21.2 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:14 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":6102702,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  Thank you JJp.

                  {"commentId":6102702,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 4 votes
                  #21.3 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:49 AM EDT
                  Reply
                  {"commentId":6092671,"authorDomain":"tyroanee"}

                  Karl_

                  you are so talented and a true gem...keep up the good work!

                  Michelle

                  {"commentId":6092671,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"tyroanee"}
                  • 8 votes
                  Reply#22 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:32 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6092834,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  Thank you, Michelle.

                  {"commentId":6092834,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 7 votes
                  #22.1 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:45 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  {"commentId":6096458,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

                  I liked it, but who the hell do I think I am to judge art.... Oh I know, Zoilus, good, I liked it.

                  {"commentId":6096458,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
                  • 6 votes
                  Reply#23 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:31 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6096811,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  Dan Hallo, aka, Zoilus,

                  Thanks for the compliment... I will tell you my embarrassing secret: Hum mm... I am neither a writer nor a poet. I am a man with a soul that wants to talk about it.

                  {"commentId":6096811,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 9 votes
                  #23.1 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:03 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6097363,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

                  Eram quod es; eris quod sum

                  {"commentId":6097363,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
                  • 3 votes
                  #23.2 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:54 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6097450,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  A quote well suited to a ghost! ê¿ê

                  A similar thought has made me a ghost's nightmare: Beware, I can become what you are, you cannot be what I am.

                  {"commentId":6097450,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 9 votes
                  #23.3 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:03 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6097674,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

                  ·•¿·• I don't have nightmares anymore. We are all what we are or on our way to be, so I don't define myself by what I do not believe. It would be redundant.

                  The Words atheist, or pagan, have just become the PC way of saying, Heretic or Blasphemer.

                  {"commentId":6097674,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
                  • 4 votes
                  #23.4 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:24 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6097725,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  I see. I do not define or label myself past I am.

                  {"commentId":6097725,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 7 votes
                  #23.5 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:29 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6097803,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  I am.
                  Complete.
                  Each addition
                  diminishes my scope.

                  I am.
                  A blank page upon which
                  every and all things are.
                  Implicit. Unwritten.
                  Universes
                  waiting to be born.
                  Untold secrets
                  unwhispered.

                  I am.

                  {"commentId":6097803,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 8 votes
                  #23.6 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:35 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6097845,"authorDomain":"Zoilus"}

                  I always liked the great philosopher PETSM who put it like this.

                  "I am what I am and thats all that I am."

                  {"commentId":6097845,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"Zoilus"}
                  • 6 votes
                  #23.7 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  {"commentId":6097726,"authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}

                  Dear Karl, hugs to you from my heart.

                  Spirit of the Land
                  arise in Peace
                  and shine.

                  Your time will be one day.

                  Your children will make amend.

                  I'm waiting for that day with arms and mind and heart and oh yea , eyes , wide open.

                  {"commentId":6097726,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}
                  • 7 votes
                  Reply#24 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:29 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6097766,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  RoxyFL,

                  Thank you, thak you thank you.

                  You are the very first that understood the exact scope of my message. I know that you do!

                  There is a plea for a deep change in the soul of the people. I hope that you got that too.

                  {"commentId":6097766,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 6 votes
                  #24.1 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:32 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6098017,"authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}

                  Dearest friend ✿✿❤

                  Your words are simple yet POWERFUL. As I was reading, I swear I though, I know I didn't write this but I feel it. Please keep writing. It'll eventually reach people one at a time.

                  Emphaty is the key word in my case, either I'm cursed with it or blessed with it.

                  I once wrote a poem in another language that translates

                  "I , who is afraid to smell a beautiful rose on it's branch from the root, in case I break a leaf, am ashamed of those who call a woman, who sells herself to feed her hungry children, a whore'',

                  Please forgive the vulgarity.

                  {"commentId":6098017,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}
                  • 6 votes
                  #24.2 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:56 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6098043,"authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}

                  geez those symbols were supposed to be flowers and a heart

                  {"commentId":6098043,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}
                  • 6 votes
                  #24.3 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:58 PM EDT
                  {"commentId":6098078,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  Roxy,

                  We suffer from the same curse. We want to be our brothers keeper, but lack the means. A terrible faith.

                  "I , who is afraid to smell a beautiful rose on it's branch from the root, in case I break a leaf, am ashamed of those who call a woman, who sells herself to feed her hungry children, a whore'',

                  I will try to translate it in another language as well. Perhaps tomorrow, and send it to you.

                  geez those symbols were supposed to be flowers and a heart

                  They are. Just refresh your screen.

                  {"commentId":6098078,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 7 votes
                  #24.4 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:01 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":6098248,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}

                  Roxy, I wrote earlier

                  ...Light implies darkness and entropy prevails. When you show the Light, expect Darkness to seep out of its den and wail.

                  I see you looping through an instance of this pattern day after day.

                  {"commentId":6098248,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 6 votes
                  #24.5 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:23 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":6098404,"authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}

                  Karl, your use of entropy describes it so perfectly. Very clever !!

                  {"commentId":6098404,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"ilkbahar-carl"}
                  • 5 votes
                  #24.6 - Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:44 AM EDT
                  Reply
                  {"commentId":6097944,"authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  There is a symbiosis that has not yet been discussed in this seed. Could we be Nature's eyes reflecting on herself? Are we the Singer and the song? Can - or will - Nature dress up in her best attributes to cradle us, without our facilitating such an advent?

                  This subject remained lettre morte in this seed.

                  {"commentId":6097944,"threadId":"533806","contentId":"2575642","authorDomain":"kperodin"}
                  • 7 votes
                  Reply#25 - Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:49 PM EDT
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